tubechallenge.com

The six London Overground lines are to be given their own names and colours: Liberty, Lioness, Mildmay, Suffragette, Weaver and Windrush.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-wit ... -names.pdf

Do you think they'll catch on?

Typically "woke" names

Going Underground wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024, 12:32 Typically "woke" names

What would you name them then?

Name them after famous gingers - Harry, Greg, Ed, Hannah, Catherine and Bonnie

Suffragette line looks very similar to the trams to me - I obviously know which is which but tourists may not

tubeguru wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024, 17:44

Going Underground wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024, 12:32 Typically "woke" names

What would you name them then?

Being vaguely serious for a moment:

The Suffragette line could obviously be the "GOBLIN", as that's what people already call it. "Bakerloo" started out as a nickname so there's a clear precedent.
The Windrush line could be the "Brunel line" after Brunel's tunnel, a proposal for which there was a lot of public support.
The Weaver line could be the "Lea Valley line", which was TfL's original proposed name for it.
The Liberty line could be the "Emerson Park line" for the same reason.
The Lioness line is officially called the "Watford DC line" after the method of electrification, a name that is unlikely to mean much to the general public. TfL's proposed name was "Watford local line" but that's inaccurate as it's not local to Watford. I suppose you could call it the "Northwestern line" although that's not very original, or perhaps the "W line" (Willesden, Wembley, Wealdstone and Watford).
The Mildmay line (which is actually further from the Mildmay hospital than two of the other lines!) is probably the trickiest. It's formed from parts of the old North London and West London lines, but it also serves parts of south and east London, so maybe the "Compass Line"? (All four compass points - also it encompasses inner London!)

Thinking about line names:

Most of the 11 Tube lines are either named after the companies that built them (Metropolitan and District), places they serve (Hammersmith & City, Waterloo & City, Piccadilly, Victoria, Bakerloo), or have some other clue about where they go (Central, Northern, Circle). Consequently if given a Tube map with the stations marked but no key to the lines, it would be possible to make a sensible guess as to which line is which. The exception is the Jubilee, but if you can figure the others out, you can figure that one out by a process of elimination.

The Overground lines by contrast have very little to identify which is which and just looking at the list of names doesn't tell me anything about where they are. (Does the Lioness line go to London Zoo?).

To my mind, "North London Line", "East London Line", "Euston-Watford Line", "GOBLIN", "Emerson Line" are much more easily understood and are the names I'm likely to continue to use.

Iain wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024, 19:17 Suffragette line looks very similar to the trams to me - I obviously know which is which but tourists may not

Yes, a number of lines are sufficiently similar to existing colours to cause confusion for people who cannot see subtle differences in colour clearly.

RJSRdg wrote: ↑18 Feb 2024, 19:04 Thinking about line names:

Most of the 11 Tube lines are either named after the companies that built them (Metropolitan and District), places they serve (Hammersmith & City, Waterloo & City, Piccadilly, Victoria, Bakerloo), or have some other clue about where they go (Central, Northern, Circle). Consequently if given a Tube map with the stations marked but no key to the lines, it would be possible to make a sensible guess as to which line is which. The exception is the Jubilee, but if you can figure the others out, you can figure that one out by a process of elimination.

Actually I disagree. "Metropolitan" could refer to any of them as they're all in the metropolis. "District" could refer to any of them as they all serve various districts (maybe not the Waterloo & City). "Central" could refer to several of them as most of them serve Central London. "Northern" doesn't really refer to any of them as none of them are exclusively in North London (the Northern line could equally well be the Southern line). "Piccadilly" could refer to two different lines, as could "Victoria" (three if you include the Circle). "Circle" doesn't even describe the route any more.

I was going to say that "Hammersmith & City" is unambiguous, but it isn't. The District line serves Hammersmith and also runs through the City of London. Even "Bakerloo" is ambiguous! Baker Street and Waterloo are both served by the Bakerloo - but they're also both served by the Jubilee.

So that just leaves one line, the Waterloo & City line. Even then you could argue that the Northern line could be the "Waterloo & City line" because it has one branch through Waterloo and one through the City.

So I don't think there are any unambiguous names.

To my mind, "North London Line", "East London Line", "Euston-Watford Line", "GOBLIN", "Emerson Line" are much more easily understood and are the names I'm likely to continue to use.

Except that the "North London Line" extends far beyond North London and the "East London Line" extends far beyond East London! The names may have made sense once but they don't any more.

It's very difficult to come up with completely transparent names for railway lines.

RJSRdg wrote: ↑18 Feb 2024, 19:08

Iain wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024, 19:17 Suffragette line looks very similar to the trams to me - I obviously know which is which but tourists may not

Yes, a number of lines are sufficiently similar to existing colours to cause confusion for people who cannot see subtle differences in colour clearly.

I would think to leave one line as orange, perhaps the ELL as it has been that colour from the time it was part of LU. Perhaps tfl could consider replacing the suffragette green with orange to mitigate the aforementioned confusion.

Another point is the confusion the new colours could cause when displayed on the 'London Tube and Rail Connections Map', The double stripped coloured lines could be confused to tourists as national rail services with limited service patterns

Also, there's no longer anything to make the Elizabeth line stand out. It just looks as though it's another Overground line.

Whilst I think it's important to remember the Suffragettes, the Windrush immigrants and many other groups of people, I don't think that naming transport lines after them is the way forward. The names need to be timeless and say something about the line, not reflect what we think is important right now (2024) and possibly have a loose connection.

As to what I'd call them:

Watford DC line (Lioness Line): This is also known as the Watford Local Line, but that's a bit long. Call me boring, but I think calling it the Watford Line is probably best. It tells you everything you need to know about it.

North London Line (Mildmay Line): Simply calling it the North London Line isn't good enough as there are so many other lines in north London. As it goes to Stratford, I think the Olympic Line is a nice name. Memorable and says a bit about both local and national history.

South London Line (Windrush Line): Not sure about this one. Could probably get away with South London Line. Part of me wants it to be called the East London Line, as it runs over the route of the old underground line, but as it now extends far beyond its old bounds that doesn't work. Surrey Line, maybe?

Gospel Oak - Barking Line (Suffragette Line): Already known as the Goblin Line, and what a great name that is. It says where the Line is, where it goes and is very memorable. But goblins are not nice creatures so I can understand the desire to avoid officially calling the line that. But then what else could it be called? I feel the positives of the name outweigh the negatives so I'd stick with what we have.

Emerson Park Line (Liberty Line): Again, this already has a decent name, but naming a line, even a short one, after a small, intermediate station doesn't make sense. I'd call it the Havering line, as it sits entirely within that London borough. Since the borough is named after the Royal Liberty of Havering, there's a connection to local history as well.

Lee Valley Line (Weaver Line): This one I like. A little unexpected, tells of local history and isn't going to get dated. Weaver Line can stay.

But do I think the official names will catch on? Yes. People may complain or ignore them to begin with but they won't be going away and we'll all learn to live with them.

Lunaticonthegrass wrote: ↑19 Feb 2024, 17:49 Watford DC line (Lioness Line): This is also known as the Watford Local Line, but that's a bit long. Call me boring, but I think calling it the Watford Line is probably best. It tells you everything you need to know about it.

I don't think calling it the Watford Line is a good idea at all. If you want to go from central London to Watford Junction, there are fast mainline services running from Euston which get there in less than half the time.

I like "Olympic Line" for the Mildmay though.

Just spotted that you mentioned that Brunel Line was suggested as a name for the South London (Windrush) line. I think that's a good name for it.

Also just realised that the line between Euston and Watford could be given a name which tells you where it goes and reflects British culture...

U Wot Line.